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 Post subject: Vowels for dummies, part 2: e, ę and ė
PostPosted: 2007 05 23, 19:57 

Joined: 2007 05 14, 18:19
Posts: 31
Location: Suomija
And then the second part of the 'popular' series. The author cannot be held responsible for his total ignorance of the things he is writing about. Sorry. :P
I try to avoid the length of the vowel, it is enough for me now to find out all possible vowel sounds. I guess the stress is again decisive in the length.

e
In the sample words 'bet' and 'nes' the pronunciation is clear to me without remarks, just good old-fashioned 'e'. :D
And the 'e' in words 'ledas', 'ežeras' and 'peršokti' really sounds like in English 'mat' as it should. :) But is it possible to know from the written word if the 'e' is pronounced like 'mat' or do I just have remember them by heart?

ę
The 'ę' in words tęsti, Kęstu, saulę sound like 'mat' again, as they should.
Is the 'ę' always pronounced this way? So why aren't 'ledas', 'ežeras' and 'peršokti' written with 'ę' ? 8)
[the word 'pasimetes' doesn't seem to open]

ė
I am surprisingly able to hear the difference between the bet/nes 'e' and lėlė 'ė' even if this kind of 'e' isn't known in my language. Hurray, my ear is able to hear something new after all! :lol:
[the file for word 'saulė' is not found]

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PostPosted: 2007 05 24, 05:36 
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The only thing I can tell is that ė is like spanish e. So if you have any chance of listening to spanish speakers, its the exact same sound you'll be hearing.
But you should read what has already been discused here: http://www.debeselis.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=227


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PostPosted: 2007 05 24, 05:47 

Joined: 2007 05 14, 18:19
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ascii wrote:
The only thing I can tell is that ė is like spanish e. So if you have any chance of listening to spanish speakers, its the exact same sound you'll be hearing.


Oops! And I thought Spanish vowels were pronounced like the Finnish but
now you tell that 'e's are 'ė's. Perhaps next someone tells me that the Finnish 'e' is 'ė', too. :P

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 Post subject: Re: Vowels for dummies, part 2: e, ę and ė
PostPosted: 2007 05 24, 18:13 
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Very nice overview, geležinkelio stotie!

gelezinkelio stotis wrote:
So why aren't 'ledas', 'ežeras' and 'peršokti' written with 'ę' ? 8)

Because
1) ę is like 'Mat' in both stressed and unstressed vowels;
2) ę is a 'historical' vowel. It used to be 'en'.


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PostPosted: 2007 05 31, 23:34 
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Just to do my customary IPA-postage...

"Short" E: /ɛ/ (like "bet")
"Long" E: /æ/ (like "bat" in American and Southern English dialects)
Ę: /æ/
Ė /e/ (this is actually between [e] and [E]) (between "bet" and "pain")

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PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 15:42 

Joined: 2007 01 15, 18:58
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I'm not sure if it's of any help to you, but Lithuanian ė is very much like Hungarian é.

Does Finnish have it?
Even though we're related, and they say we've got pretty much the same inventory of sounds, also the intonation is similar (with stress always falling on the first syllable), I'm not sure.

Yes, ę is long e. Is it still considered to be a nasal vowel, or did it only use to be one, and now it's only long e?


Last edited by sytombi on 2007 06 01, 17:55, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 16:55 
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There are NO nasal sounds in lithuanian any more. The tails are kept just for tradition.


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PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 17:54 

Joined: 2007 01 15, 18:58
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Yes, that's what I thought, only I remember reading somewhere (obviously some unreliable source) that they're still pronounced as nasal sounds...

Perchance dialects?
Is the nasal quality extinct in all dialects?


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PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 18:02 

Joined: 2007 05 14, 18:19
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Location: Suomija
sytombi wrote:
I'm not sure if its of any help to you, but Lithuanian ė is very much like Hungarian é.

Does Finnish has it?
Even though we're related, and they say we've got pretty much the same inventory of sounds, also the intonation is similar (with stress always falling on the first syllable), I'm not sure.

Yes, ę is long e. Is it still considered to be a nasal vowel, or did it only use to be one, and now it's only long e?

Nice to find a Hungarian on the forum, too. :)

No, the Finnish 'e' is not like Lithuanian ė, in fact it is so far from it that even I can hear the difference. :P One of my few Lithuanian pronunciation sources is the movie Incredibles (Nerealieji). :wink: On the soundtrack one of the delightful words in Lithuanian which is pronounced exactly like in Finnish is 'atleisk' (which is of course a useful word to know). :)

It is interesting to notice how much people compare the pronunciation in Lithuanian to their own language, I seem an odd desire to find the Finnish vowels in Lithuanian. I guess I will find most of them, but I will also many variations which do not exist in Finnish.

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PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 18:51 
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Location: gdie ja žyvū :)
e is э
ę is ИЕe
ė is иэ or йэ

That these vovels are written by the Russian translation :D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2007 06 01, 19:54 

Joined: 2007 01 15, 18:58
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I promise I won't post a topic on Finno-Ugric languages;)
Since this site is dedicated to Lithuanian;)

Just to clarify things.
Hungarian has e and é.
It's an interesting case, since in Hungarian those marks on the letters (Does anyone know the exact scientific term for them?) usually denote difference in length. If they've got one, they're long, if they haven't got any, they're short: i-í, o-ó, u-ú, ö-ő, ü-ű.
(If I'm not mistaken, Finnish doubles the letters to denote length.)
A-á, e-é... Well, they are different sounds.

If you're interested, go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_phonology


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2007 06 04, 23:26 
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sytombi wrote:
I'm not sure if it's of any help to you, but Lithuanian ė is very much like Hungarian é.

Does Finnish have it?
Even though we're related, and they say we've got pretty much the same inventory of sounds, also the intonation is similar (with stress always falling on the first syllable), I'm not sure.

Yes, ę is long e. Is it still considered to be a nasal vowel, or did it only use to be one, and now it's only long e?


I must say that these vowels which you means as nasal vowels, that these vowels as nasal don't exist in the Lithuanian phonetics. All vowels are open (they are formed close to lips, but they never are composed by sound throuth nose (nasal) or guttural vowels as finnish vowels).


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PostPosted: 2007 06 09, 14:03 
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gelezinkelio stotis wrote:
It is interesting to notice how much people compare the pronunciation in Lithuanian to their own language, I seem an odd desire to find the Finnish vowels in Lithuanian. I guess I will find most of them, but I will also many variations which do not exist in Finnish.


Of course we compare to things we know.

It won't be interesting for you but in french :lol: ę=é and ė=è.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2007 06 09, 17:05 
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Joce wrote:
It won't be interesting for you but in french :lol: ę=é and ė=è.

As far as I remember my French, it's the other way round: ė=é and e,ę=è


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