It is currently 2017 12 15, 19:52


All times are UTC + 2 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2008 01 11, 00:54 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 09 08, 19:28
Posts: 952
Location: La Plata, Argentinos Respublika
Ttk wrote:
When Lithuanian kids go to grade school, they bring a barrage of misused declensions etc. from home. It is only during the first six years that they get "cleaned up."


I like what you said about it but I'd suggest to talk about this on this thread:
http://www.debeselis.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2008 01 15, 10:31 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 07 29, 18:11
Posts: 284
Location: Vilnius
:wink:


Last edited by Palomita on 2008 01 17, 08:27, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Nė dienos be lietuvių kalbos
PostPosted: 2008 09 25, 15:16 

Joined: 2008 09 25, 15:12
Posts: 1
Location: Tallinn
Id like to have the copy of Nė dienos be lietuvių kalbos please, inkser@hot.ee

Thanks


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Nė dienos be lietuvių kalbos
PostPosted: 2008 09 25, 17:18 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 09 08, 19:28
Posts: 952
Location: La Plata, Argentinos Respublika
Inga wrote:
Id like to have the copy of Nė dienos be lietuvių kalbos please, inkser@hot.ee

Thanks


I think you missunderstood me. I didnt say I had the book copied to the pc. I just have the verb list... plus this is not a warez website. :)

_________________
But what do I know? I'm just an Argentinian.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject: verb/case list
PostPosted: 2011 07 04, 22:53 

Joined: 2011 05 06, 01:08
Posts: 8
I am joining this 3 years later, so am doubtful of results, but if anyone still has a copy of a list saying which verbs govern which cases or can point me towards an online resource, I would be very grateful. I just send my linguist brother-in-law a panicky email saying, "Help, I think LIthuanian puts the direct object in the genetive case and that doesn't make any sense to me!" and he directed me to this site. Plus he gave me a bunch of possibly relevant comparisons to Russian and Norwegian, but that's what i get for asking him a grammar question. Thank you.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 05, 03:08 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 09 08, 19:28
Posts: 952
Location: La Plata, Argentinos Respublika
I can get you the list. But I have to point out a couple of things. Yes, you might find verbs with their complement in the genitive case, but that is not a direct object, it is called otherwise. You have such occurences in english too, ie: I count ON her.
Complements in the accusative case are called direct objects.

Lithuanian has a weird characteristic. Transitive verbs (verbs with direct object (verbs with complement in the accusative)) in their negative form have their object in the genitive.

Aš turiu tortą.
Aš neturiu torto.

_________________
But what do I know? I'm just an Argentinian.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 05, 19:00 

Joined: 2011 05 06, 01:08
Posts: 8
Okay, that way of thinking about it makes sense. Thank you. But I am still struggling with specific incidents where I remain convinced that is IS a direct object, but it seems to be in genetive case.

For example, I have a list comparing questions in Latvian, English, and Lithuanian. It says:
Kam tu devi davanu?
To whom did you give a gift?
Kam tu davei dovanų?

In Latvian and English, gift/davanu would be considered the direct object, and are in the accusative case. Gave what? = a gift. Devi ko? = davanu

In Lithuanian, according to this list and my trusty noun declension guide, dovanų is the genetive plural form. This confuses me. I am hoping to hear that there was a misprint, at least in making it plural. But why genetive? This is what makes me feel that there must be some list I just have to memorize, because my logic isn't doing much for me here.

Actually, having just read back through this chain of posts, it looks like someone specifically said that duoti would command the accusative. Maybe I just need to toss this list I have.

thanks again.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 05, 19:42 
User avatar

Joined: 2007 05 18, 17:00
Posts: 325
Location: Tauragė, Lithuania
You could say both. It depends what you want to say.

Kam tu davei dovanas?
To whom did you give (all) the gifts?

Kam tu davei dovanų?
To whom did you give (some) gifts?

Pirkti bananų.
Buy bananas. (since you probably don't buy ALL the bananas).

But you could also say...
Pirkti bananus.

If you have in mind all the bananas.

You can also say.

Valgyti obuolio.
Eat part of apple.

or...

Valgyti obuolį.
Eat whole apple.

So it depends if you are talking about "the whole" - accusative or "part of whole" - genetive.

Of course there are other rules to take into consideration, but this was just a thought from a stupid Swede. :)

_________________
Būdamas Tauragėje, elkis kaip tauragiškiai.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 05, 20:51 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 09 08, 19:28
Posts: 952
Location: La Plata, Argentinos Respublika
Toto is right. But that doesn't mean the verb has its direct object in the genitive case, rather in the partitive case which is the same as the genitive in form, but not in meaning. That works for the subject too, ie:

Atvažiavo svečių (ne visi).
Atvažiavo svečiai (visi).

_________________
But what do I know? I'm just an Argentinian.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 08, 14:11 

Joined: 2011 07 01, 23:04
Posts: 13
Location: Britain
asCii wrote:
Toto is right. But that doesn't mean the verb has its direct object in the genitive case, rather in the partitive case which is the same as the genitive in form, but not in meaning. That works for the subject too, ie:

Atvažiavo svečių (ne visi).
Atvažiavo svečiai (visi).


Partitive case: Do Lithuanian grammarians accept this as the name of a case? The Finnish partitive is a separate form and so is undeniably a separate case but Classical Greek used the genitive form for the partitive sense and (modern) grammarians just call the usage the "partitive genitive".


Top
Offline Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: 2011 07 08, 21:16 
User avatar

Joined: 2006 09 08, 19:28
Posts: 952
Location: La Plata, Argentinos Respublika
Well, the genitive case has many more uses than that of the "genitive". I believe that calling it by that name is just a convention.

_________________
But what do I know? I'm just an Argentinian.


Top
Offline Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Moderators: crankshaft, asCii Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 2 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Theme created StylerBB.net